constructive critik is always welcome, hate-comments not.
This is a map showing the territories that Germany, and german-speaking territories that Austria lost,
between 1919 and today. For every region you see the name and the date, when it was taken from Germany,
some regions were taken twice after every world war. A short description about the regions:
Federal Republic of Germany: Germany today
Austria: Anschluss forbidden in 1919, the Republic German-Austria containing all ethnical Germans
from Austria-Hungary was forbidden as well. It united with Germany in 1938 and left Germany again
after the downfall of the 3. Reich.
Northern Schleswig: Lost after a referendum in 1919, because most of the residents were danish,
Southern Schleswig was allowed to stay in Germany.
Eupen-Malmedy: Small german communities lost in 1919 and again in 1945.
Alsace-Lorraine (Elsass-Lothringen): Lost in 1919 and again in 1945, around 90% of the residents
are Germans, Metz and the region around was always french.
South Tyrol (Südtirol): Lost 1919 and never reunited with the rest of Tyrol. Even tho Italy tried
to erase everything German there, still 70% of the residents are Germans today.
Kanaltal, South Styria (Südsteiermark), Ödenburg etc.: Smaller german regions around Austria
claimed for German-Austria, but not allowed by the allied. Most of the Germans there were
expelled, left because of bad conditions or were assimilated.
Sudetenland: Claimed by German-Austria, but forbidden by the allied. United with Germany in 1938,
lost after 1945. 99% of the Germans killed or expelled.
West Prussia (Westpreußen), Posen, Danzig: Lost in 1919 and again in 1945. Posen was mainly settled
by Poles, West-Prussia was mixed and created the so called corridor, one of many reasons that leaded
to a war with Poland.
East-Prussia (Ostpreußen): Separated from the german mainland in 1919, lost in 1945, all Germans were killed or expelled.
Pommerania (Pommern), East Brandenburg and Silesia (Schlesien): Lost in 1945, nearly all Germans were killed or expelled.
Upper-Silesia (Oberschlesien): Lost 1922 and again 1945, nearly all Germans killed or expelled.
Not included: Language islands, that were spread all over East Europe, states that identified in former centuries as Germans, such as Luxemburg, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, the Netherlands, parts of Belgium.
I didn´t mention the Saarland and partition of Germany into 4 zones in that map, too.
For more information, check:
Treaty of Versailles:
Expulsion of the Germans:
I love to read the comments in here. It is nice to see that many not-German understand what we (our grandparents) were going through.
Personally I don’t see a way to get the land back, that we lost and since the current structure settled for 70years it could only hurt the people that are currently life there. As much as I would like to move the borders around to get back (parts of) the old Prussian land, I am educated enough to know that the polish people suffered as much as we did (maybe more) and they deserve to stay where they life right now.
A way to become more powerful (if we want that) is to expand our footprint in the EU. Germany is the most powerful economy in the EU and that is what is counting in the 21th Century.
When the crises around Greece told me something, than that all EU is already looking at Germany and follow our lead. I kind of like that, even when it means, that we have to pay the biggest part of the cake.
No at the moment we can´t get any of those, the only realistic scenario I could imagine is
that in the future Austria, Südtirol and Eupen-Malmedy join us, but else...no. Even more because
we have a big demographic problem, we get no children.
If Germany accepts it´s role as a leader it can work, but Germany is still very zaghaft
and scared to be called a Nazi land again, even tho they do it anyway if they flame us XD
And this should be Germany, if you go after political and historical region borders:
Posen was mostly polish and Poland deserves it, that´s right I agree.
With Alsace-Lorraine u r wrong, cause 88% of them were always Germans,
only the region around Metz is historically french, which is only a small part of it.
Northern Schleswig shall be danish, I´m fine.
Sudetenland is rightful german, but we can´t get all that regions anyway.
Germany is in a big leading position true, but not very patriotic, Merkel won´t do much
for german interests, and our president travels every month to another state kneeing down
for german crimes decades ago, showing how weak and soft Germany became, while noone
else would do that for their own crimes.
For example I could celebrate America as liberator maybe...but Russia??? Not less worse than
Nazi Germany deserves surely no respect, only because it won.
Around 1 hour 13 mins, you can see a short compilation of that time:
Here is the full episode of Stresemann, but sadly only in German, maybe the pictures you
see are enough to understand:
The first world war was not our fault and I´m kinda sure that all empires and nations
that took part in the war blindly followed, so what?
The second world war is a direct seed of the Versailles dictate, do you even know how
harsh this dictate was, and that the people voted Hitler not because he hated jews,
but because he reversed this dictate? Until 1939, he got back nearly all german settled
regions with no single fight, the economy was blooming, the people had work,
so it´s obvious they followed him.
What he then did was just criminal and I hate him for that, but it´s actually very easy to
understand why they followed him, when you know what the allied did to Germany,
and how awful the crisis in the Weimarer Republic were.
was that the goal of the allied? Are you even aware what you talk here???
Or is it true, that this was not a fight against nazism, but against the german people?
Noone wants that regions back it´s unrealistic, but we want respect and I have ancestors
from the Sudetenland, too, so you shouldn´t speak so respectless about that poor people.
At the end always the normal people suffer, no reason to treat on their feelings.
Furthermore I get the feeling that many Germans are afraid of their own success because the shame they endured. Germany should abandon the EU and create their own Empire. See how well the rest of Europe would do without Germany supporting the continent economically.
After ww 1. they tried to destroy us by material, this didn´t work. But after ww 2.
it was reeducation, teaching all Germans to lose any pride or patriotism, to accept the allied
as liberators that did everything right and that´s why we are economically strong
but our spirit is weak, we´re very ungerman today. We Germans were made to produce
but not to rule from 1945 on. That´s the thing that is going wrong atm.
However I don´t want revenge or hate the normal people of these victor nations.
Oh my. Some of you, germans, are sometimes so pathetic, it's even funny.
You said Prussia was heart of Germany.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia… - Well, prussians were the most devout followers of Hitler. Prussia needed to be destroyed to guarantee germans will remain quiet.
Germany commited crimes and it was punished. And stop whining that Germany was hurt. It wasn't saint itself.
And I think wether a polish farmer wife, nor a german farmer wife in that regions were guilty for their government,
so both were victims.
Or are german victims less worth to you than others?
I think no German would deny german crimes, we worked a lot with our past.
Prussia united our nation and Bismarck was our greatest leader ever. That´s the time I´m proud of.
But don´t forget, Hitler didn´t let come back Wilhelm II, he had no interest in Prussia or the old monarchy,
it were only people he needed to manipulate.
"Germany commited crimes and it was punished. And stop whining that Germany was hurt. It wasn't saint itself."
But you know that the rise of Hitler has a pre-story and you know it didn´t happen without reason?
We have a saying: Hitler was born in Versailles.
And don´t tell me Poles didn´t dream about a gigantic Poland, up to the regions of Berlin, too,
some of your generals even wanted to invade Germany in the early 30s, because we had no army
So you can continue making fun of murdered people, no matter which nationality, or change ur mind.
I respect Poland and I´m sorry for the damage the Nazis did, if you wanna continue to hate...I can´t change it.
I know about pre-story of Hitler and treaty od Versailles. But, guys who tell Versailles was bad, forget about 1871, when Prussians provoked France into war, humiliated them completely, took Alsace-Lorraine and forced them to pay giant contributions. What's ironic, they mutiliated them in same Versailes they were mutilated themselves forty years later. But it is nothing strange the French wanted revenge. The situation was even worse when Wilhelm II started to threathen everyone.
The lands taken in the Versailles weren't really german lands. I agree that population of Alsace was mostly german, but a lot of french lived in Lorraine. Northern Schleswig was danish, and Poznan and corridor was mostly polish. I agree, that there were germans who lived there, but german minority wasn't that big, and it was treated much better than poles in Germany in XIX century. Upper Silesia is debatable, but there were three uprising against Germany here. But I have to admit, that South Tirol was and is inhabited by germans.
About the other things in Versailles, I agree that punishment on Germany after WWI was a bit too much.
About Poland controlling Berlin, that is the first time I ever hear of this. It's shame that Polabian Slavs dissapeared, but I don't blame Germany for this. Only thing I would wish, is something to protect Lusatian Serb culture from extinction.
And about invasion in the thirty years, there were plans like this, but they were plans of preventive war to overthrow Hitler. They didn't do it, and six years later, when germans had monstrous war machine it was too late to stop them.
And, to clarify, I don't hate Germany. I like german history, but there is one thing. Poznan and corridor are polish.
I heard that one time there was more Slovaks dancing Lusatian Serb dances then the real Lusatian Serb.
you know what expulsion is, the Russians did the same to you. I´m sure Poles understand
very well how it feels to lose the home.
And you also know the pre history of 1871? That France attacked the german states since 200-300 years?
There were about 12-15 aggressions, the Rheinland was burnt down several times, palaces and castles
in Baden destroyes, Napoleon even wanted to erase the whole german identity in large parts.
France reacted more childish actually, it was normal for it since centuries to bully others and always win,
and suddenly Prussia our hero stopped them and said fuck off, Germany won´t allow anymore that you
bully it. XD
Instead of then working for a peace, France moved on the way of hate and revenge, one (of very many!) reason for the
1. world war.
Well I would´ve given Poland all polish settled regions, like Poznan, which was an important region of your culture.
The rest was extremely mixed and there were many language islands. Maybe an exchange would´ve helped?
Yes the westslavic tribes disappeared, as our east germanic tribes disappeared, but it was as u say, not the fault
of Germany or Poland, it was a natural, non-political migration.
I think we agree more than u think^^ However, we surely can respect each other now, I mean eternal hate?
Nah please not^^
15 million civilians had to leave their homes, 2-3 million were killed on their way to the west.
Most of them were women, children and elder men, since the other men fought, were fallen
or in siberia already :/
That´s also the reason why they abolished Prussia (German: Preußen) in 1947,
it was our strongest and best german state, the state that united our nation in 1871,
and they wanted to kill our heart state, so they can controll us easier.
He who lives by the sword dies by the sword (territorily speaking)
At least that´s not a good saying, as if Germany deserves that....I can´t agree sorry.
I maybe should've used the "when you play the game of thrones" saying. Germany was an empire and lost thusly it lost territory like every other empire that has joined history: Rome, HRE and so forth. It is simply a matter of of expanding and contracting what one deserves is entierly irrelevant it is simply the way it is. While we are at it neither France or Britain are empires anymore though they lost their status as "empires" (assuming the word is applicable) in a less traumatic way.
Will Czechs or Poles ever make a movie with positive Germans?
Das der Elzass wieder von Frankreich ''zurückannektiert'' ist finde ich nicht enorm schlimm. Dennoch schade natürlich, aber besser zu verstehen als die Annektion Ostpreußens, Schlesiens und Pommerns.
Ich finde es selbstverständlich sehr schade das Danzig jetzt Gdansk heißt, Königsberg Kaliningrad, Stettin Szecszin Breslau Wroclaw, usw. Das ist für immer verloren gegangen, schade aber es ist leider nicht anders... Zum glück versucht mann auf jeden fall die alte, Deutsche Architektur und Museen zu erhalten. Dieser Hanzekontoren in Danzig bleiben für dieser Stadt die wichtigste Sehenswürdigkeiten. Und das ist auch etwas wert natürlich.
Liebe Grüße aus den Niederlanden.
außerdem haben wir nicht genug Menschen um es zu besiedeln, wir kriegen ja zu wenig Kinder.
Naja sie hätten wenigstens die deutsche Sprache im Elsass nicht zerstören dürfen^^ Aber klar,
hier wurde niemand vertrieben. Dennoch sind 88% der Elsässer Deutsche gewesen und Deutsche
sollten in Deutschland sein und nicht in Frankreich XD
Ja stimmt die Architektur bleibt erhalten!
Dein Deutsche ist wunderbar.
Darf ich dich was fragen, aber bitte nicht böse sein^^
Gibt es irgendeine Chance, dass sich Niederländer und Flamen noch als deutsch betrachten?
Ich meine, ihr habt das Reich erst 1648 nach dem 30-jährigen Krieg verlassen, und es gibt von
Südtirol bis Amsterdam, eine Dialektfortsetzung des Deutschen. Oder hat die 350-jährige Trennung
eine zu große Kluft zwischen uns geschaffen?
Das Alemannisch in die Elzass wird natürlich auch immer weniger gesprochen. Das ist unvermeidlich weil diese Sprache nicht dominant ist dort, im Gegensatz zu Süd-Tirol, wo die Deutschen ein Mehrheit sind. Zum Glück.
Danke, es dauert immer eine Weile bevor ich richtig gut Deusch spreche oder schreibe. Ich bin wie ein Diesel wenn es das angeht, es bracht einfach Zeit. Und dann ist es noch immer nicht perfekt und gibt es noch immer Rechtschreibfehler aber es wird langsam aber sicher besser ; ).
Kein Angst, das ist für mich überhaupt keine Beleidigung. Ich finde es eigentlich nur schlimm wenn jemand mir ein Holländer nennt statt Niederländer, die Holländer befinden sich im Westen von die Niederlande (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Den Haag usw). Also gut das Sie das Unterschied richtig verstehen haben ; ). Es ist vergleichbar mit wenn ich jemand aus Bayern ein Preiss nenne zum Beispiel. Leider verstehen auch viele Niederländer das Unterschied zwischen Holland und die Niederlande nicht.
Ich betrachte mich als Germanisch. Ich fühle mich relativ stark verbunden mit Deutschen (insbesondere weil ich 37,5% Deutsches Blut habe), Schweden, Dänen, Norweger, Flamen, Österreicher (letzte zwei sind etnisch natürlich Niederländische und Deutsche, ich bin übrigens kein Nazi). In meiner Region gibt es noch viele die Kleverländisch sprechen, ein Deutsch/Niederdeutsches Dialekt. Und auch in andere Niederländische Provinzen (insbesondere Limburg (haben auch zur Deutschen Bund gehört im 19. Jahrhundert), Overrijsel, Noord-Brabant und Groningen) gibt es Niederdeutsche Dialekten, ich komme übrigens aus Gelderland, in der nähe von Kleve.
Ich glaube nicht das der Kluft zwischen uns zu groß geworden ist. Etnisch und im weniger maße kulturell sind Niederländer und Deutschen stark mit einander verbunden. Aber ein politische Einheit wie das Heiliges Römisches Reich wird es nicht mehr geben. Die einzige politische Einheit wo wir miteinander verbunden sind ist die EU und das ist meiner Meinung nach auch die Zukunft. In die Zukunft wird die EU ein Bundesstaat sein. Natürlich wird der EU heutzutage stark kritisiert aber Europäer haben mehr miteinander Gemein als die meisten denken, zumindestens die Nord/Westeuropäer (DE, NL, BE, LUX, AUS, SWE, FIN, Baltische Staaten, NOR und DEN).
Kein Problem, ich kann leider gar kein Niederländisch, aber wenn ich es lese, dann verstehe ich das meiste.
Hahaha, jaja ich weiß Holland ist nur eine Region von vielen, das wäre so als nennt ihr alle Deutschen Preußen oder Bayern genau^^
Das ist schön, ich sehe uns nämlich auch als germanische Brüder! Kennst du dieses Video?:
Ich finde die Idee der EU sehr gut, aber momentan hat sie so viele Fehler, es muss dringend reformiert werden!
Der EU hat natürlich ein Demokratiedefizit. Die Schuldekrise hilft auch nicht wirklich mit das Idee unter Europäer beliebter zu machen.
Ich finde das der EU zu groß geworden ist. Die Beitritt von Länder wie Bulgarien und Rumänien brauchte der EU nach meiner Meinung nicht. Türkei soll absolut nicht beitreten dürfen, finde ich.
I've always viewed Austria as having it's own unique German identity however so I usually have it staying as the Danubian Federation or something in my alternate histories with the Hapsburgs in charge.
But always the normal people are punished :/
Well Austria was for 500 years the german state, dominating and ruling all other states,
the german history us unthinkable without Austria. However in the time of nations
Austria cared more for its nongerman posessions in the east it lost later anyway,
than for the german unity, so Prussia took the chance and united most of the Germans.
Austria was supposed to unite with it later, and 1918/19 wished to do so:
But the Allied who wanted to weaken the Germans as much as possible, didn´t allow that.
With Potsdam, it was mostly Stalin strong-fisting the Western Allies who were unwilling to seek a confrontation with the Soviet dictator. The surrender of much of Eastern Europe to Stalin's brand of Marxist ideology and the vast quantities of German refugees fleeing their homes in what would be ceded to Poland, Czechoslovakia, and "Kaliningrad Oblast" is pretty a much a testament to how Europe merely replaced one hegemonic tyranny with another after the war.
Serbia, France and Russia (their diplomats and governments, not the normal people).
Germany did the treaty with Austria, to avoid the war, because Wilhelm thought, France and Russia know,
if they do shit, they trigger a continental war. But they didn´t care, they wanted the war.
Indeed Russia wanted to grow, so they pushed Germans and Poles westwards, it was also Russia that demanded
to abolish Prussia in 1947 officially. Prussia the heart and unificator (hope the right word^^) of our nation, the best
and strongest state. And they destroyed them, so we would be ununited again.