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August 8, 2014
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The mutilation of Germany by Arminius1871 The mutilation of Germany by Arminius1871
Notice: This map was not created to offend anyone, but to educate and show historical facts,
constructive critik is always welcome, hate-comments not.

This is a map showing the territories that Germany, and german-speaking territories that Austria lost,
between 1919 and today. For every region you see the name and the date, when it was taken from Germany,
some regions were taken twice after every world war. A short description about the regions:

Federal Republic of Germany: Germany today

Austria: Anschluss forbidden in 1919, the Republic German-Austria containing all ethnical Germans
from Austria-Hungary was forbidden as well. It united with Germany in 1938 and left Germany again
after the downfall of the 3. Reich.

Northern Schleswig: Lost after a referendum in 1919, because most of the residents were danish,
Southern Schleswig was allowed to stay in Germany.

Eupen-Malmedy: Small german communities lost in 1919 and again in 1945.

Alsace-Lorraine (Elsass-Lothringen): Lost in 1919 and again in 1945, around 90% of the residents
are Germans, Metz and the region around was always french.

South Tyrol (Südtirol): Lost 1919 and never reunited with the rest of Tyrol. Even tho Italy tried
to erase everything German there, still 70% of the residents are Germans today.

Kanaltal, South Styria (Südsteiermark), Ödenburg etc.: Smaller german regions around Austria
claimed for German-Austria, but not allowed by the allied. Most of the Germans there were
expelled, left because of bad conditions or were assimilated.

Sudetenland: Claimed by German-Austria, but forbidden by the allied. United with Germany in 1938,
lost after 1945. 99% of the Germans killed or expelled.

West Prussia (Westpreußen), Posen, Danzig: Lost in 1919 and again in 1945. Posen was mainly settled
by Poles, West-Prussia was mixed and created the so called corridor, one of many reasons that leaded
to a war with Poland.

East-Prussia (Ostpreußen): Separated from the german mainland in 1919, lost in 1945, all Germans were killed or expelled.

Pommerania (Pommern), East Brandenburg and Silesia (Schlesien): Lost in 1945, nearly all Germans were killed or expelled.

Upper-Silesia (Oberschlesien): Lost 1922 and again 1945, nearly all Germans killed or expelled.

Not included: Language islands, that were spread all over East Europe, states that identified in former centuries as Germans, such as Luxemburg, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, the Netherlands, parts of Belgium.

I didn´t mention the Saarland and partition of Germany into 4 zones in that map, too.

For more information, check:

Treaty of Versailles:…

Potsdam conference:…

Jalta conference:…

Expulsion of the Germans:…
Add a Comment:
ZehirAhsen Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015
Portraying Germany as victims in WW2. Well, it's not that they genoicided millions of people, ruined half of Europe and planned to wipe out all of the Jews, Slavs, Balts etc. And it wasn't also that Prussia was ruining their neighboors life since it has liberated from the polish rule. It was a plot of the anglo-jewish powers to destroy proud germanium race!

Oh my. Some of you, germans, are sometimes so pathetic, it's even funny.

You said Prussia was heart of Germany.… - Well, prussians were the most devout followers of Hitler. Prussia needed to be destroyed to guarantee germans will remain quiet.

Germany commited crimes and it was punished. And stop whining that Germany was hurt. It wasn't saint itself.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well Germans killed civilians in the east, and the red army killed civilians in the east + local supporters.
And I think wether a polish farmer wife, nor a german farmer wife in that regions were guilty for their government,
so both were victims.
Or are german victims less worth to you than others?

I think no German would deny german crimes, we worked a lot with our past.

Prussia united our nation and Bismarck was our greatest leader ever. That´s the time I´m proud of.
But don´t forget, Hitler didn´t let come back Wilhelm II, he had no interest in Prussia or the old monarchy,
it were only people he needed to manipulate.

"Germany commited crimes and it was punished. And stop whining that Germany was hurt. It wasn't saint itself."

But you know that the rise of Hitler has a pre-story and you know it didn´t happen without reason?
We have a saying: Hitler was born in Versailles.

And don´t tell me Poles didn´t dream about a gigantic Poland, up to the regions of Berlin, too,
some of your generals even wanted to invade Germany in the early 30s, because we had no army
until 1935.

So you can continue making fun of murdered people, no matter which nationality, or change ur mind.
I respect Poland and I´m sorry for the damage the Nazis did, if you wanna continue to hate...I can´t change it.
ZehirAhsen Featured By Owner 6 days ago
Well, at first I thought you are one of the "Hurr Durr gib back Posen" guys. I was wrong, so I will change my attitude.

I know about pre-story of Hitler and treaty od Versailles. But, guys who tell Versailles was bad, forget about 1871, when Prussians provoked France into war, humiliated them completely, took Alsace-Lorraine and forced them to pay giant contributions. What's ironic, they mutiliated them in same Versailes they were mutilated themselves forty years later. But it is nothing strange the French wanted revenge. The situation was even worse when Wilhelm II started to threathen everyone.

The lands taken in the Versailles weren't really german lands. I agree that population of Alsace was mostly german, but a lot of french lived in Lorraine. Northern Schleswig was danish, and Poznan and corridor was mostly polish. I agree, that there were germans who lived there, but german minority wasn't that big, and it was treated much better than poles in Germany in XIX century. Upper Silesia is debatable, but there were three uprising against Germany here. But I have to admit, that South Tirol was and is inhabited by germans.

About the other things in Versailles, I agree that punishment on Germany after WWI was a bit too much.

About Poland controlling Berlin, that is the first time I ever hear of this. It's shame that Polabian Slavs dissapeared, but I don't blame Germany for this. Only thing I would wish, is something to protect Lusatian Serb culture from extinction.

And about invasion in the thirty years, there were plans like this, but they were plans of preventive war to overthrow Hitler. They didn't do it, and six years later, when germans had monstrous war machine it was too late to stop them.

And, to clarify, I don't hate Germany. I like german history, but there is one thing. Poznan and corridor are polish.
Rodegas Featured By Owner 14 hours ago
German culture can't help much Lusatian Serb where young people are unfortunately not very interested in their heritage, and Germans can't even help them in traditional dancing, like if there is insufficient number of partners or something, since Germans don't dance slavic dances. 

I heard that one time there was more Slovaks dancing Lusatian Serb dances then the real Lusatian Serb.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner 6 days ago  Hobbyist Digital Artist
No I don´t dislike Poland, why should I it was 70 years ago, and you´re the normal people
you know what expulsion is, the Russians did the same to you. I´m sure Poles understand
very well how it feels to lose the home.

And you also know the pre history of 1871? That France attacked the german states since 200-300 years?
There were about 12-15 aggressions, the Rheinland was burnt down several times, palaces and castles
in Baden destroyes, Napoleon even wanted to erase the whole german identity in large parts.

France reacted more childish actually, it was normal for it since centuries to bully others and always win,
and suddenly Prussia our hero stopped them and said fuck off, Germany won´t allow anymore that you
bully it. XD

Instead of then working for a peace, France moved on the way of hate and revenge, one (of very many!) reason for the
1. world war.

Well I would´ve given Poland all polish settled regions, like Poznan, which was an important region of your culture.
The rest was extremely mixed and there were many language islands. Maybe an exchange would´ve helped?

Yes the westslavic tribes disappeared, as our east germanic tribes disappeared, but it was as u say, not the fault
of Germany or Poland, it was a natural, non-political migration.

I think we agree more than u think^^ However, we surely can respect each other now, I mean eternal hate?
Nah please not^^
DannetSink Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2015
Wow....they really expelled the germans?thats a big mistake,they cant just expelled people out of there homes,is not fair,hoever did this will pay dearly for it.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes they did, when the Germans lost the world war, they started the biggest expulsion of history,
15 million civilians had to leave their homes, 2-3 million were killed on their way to the west.
Most of them were women, children and elder men, since the other men fought, were fallen
or in siberia already :/
DannetSink Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2015
Wow.....15 million!?its it me or are the allies nuts!?
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Russia wanted to get more territory, and the western allied allowed it.
That´s also the reason why they abolished Prussia (German: Preußen) in 1947,
it was our strongest and best german state, the state that united our nation in 1871,
and they wanted to kill our heart state, so they can controll us easier.
DannetSink Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015
O deer,well that not good.
fredrikslicer Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2015
For all the things I could say I am simply going with this:

He who lives by the sword dies by the sword (territorily speaking)
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Except u win, else France, Britain, Spain, China, the USA etc. would be only 10% of the territory they have now XD

At least that´s not a good saying, as if Germany deserves that....I can´t agree sorry.
fredrikslicer Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2015
Not entierly sure what you tried to get across so I will clarify my meaning and hope that it makes my intention clearer and subsequently yours:

I maybe should've used the "when you play the game of thrones" saying. Germany was an empire and lost thusly it lost territory like every other empire that has joined history: Rome, HRE and so forth. It is simply a matter of of expanding and contracting what one deserves is entierly irrelevant it is simply the way it is. While we are at it neither France or Britain are empires anymore though they lost their status as "empires" (assuming the word is applicable) in a less traumatic way.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
All ok then ;)
No1re Featured By Owner Feb 1, 2015
Ive just re-watched this movie:… she sounded kinda cute:-D
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Pffff dat german accent sounds so wrong XD Like it must sound more harsh on purpose than it really does.
Will Czechs or Poles ever make a movie with positive Germans? :P
No1re Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Well, Julia Jentsch is German, not fake German;)
And the movie actually presents Germans as human beings. Quite interesting film, maybe you should see it (its available on youtube with english subtitles).
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Hm ok I´ll think about it then XD
Doppeladler Featured By Owner Edited Jan 29, 2015  New member
Leider ist Deutschland momentan nicht viel mehr als ein Rumpfstaat. Das gleiche gilt übrigens auch für Österreich mit Süd-Tirol, Sudetenland und ein Teil von Schlesien (jetzt Tschechien) nach der Erste Weltkrieg. Das Schlesien, Ostpreußen und Pommern damals auf dieser Weise annektiert wurden war ein wirkliche Schande. Diese Gebiete haben seit dem Mittelalter zum Heiliges Römisches Reich gehört und sind meiner Meinung nach unberechtigt von Polen und Russland annektiert. Und dann rede ich noch immer nicht über die Vertreibung von Deutschen nach dem Zweiten Weltkrieg...

Das der Elzass wieder von Frankreich ''zurückannektiert'' ist finde ich nicht enorm schlimm. Dennoch schade natürlich, aber besser zu verstehen als die Annektion Ostpreußens, Schlesiens und Pommerns. 

Ich finde es selbstverständlich sehr schade das Danzig jetzt Gdansk heißt, Königsberg Kaliningrad, Stettin Szecszin Breslau Wroclaw, usw. Das ist für immer verloren gegangen, schade aber es ist leider nicht anders... Zum glück versucht mann auf jeden fall die alte, Deutsche Architektur und Museen zu erhalten. Dieser Hanzekontoren in Danzig bleiben für dieser Stadt die wichtigste Sehenswürdigkeiten. Und das ist auch etwas wert natürlich.

Liebe Grüße aus den Niederlanden. 
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Ja das stimmt, aber wir können die Ostgebiete nicht zurückhaben, sonst würde es Krieg geben,
außerdem haben wir nicht genug Menschen um es zu besiedeln, wir kriegen ja zu wenig Kinder.

Naja sie hätten wenigstens die deutsche Sprache im Elsass nicht zerstören dürfen^^ Aber klar,
hier wurde niemand vertrieben. Dennoch sind 88% der Elsässer Deutsche gewesen und Deutsche
sollten in Deutschland sein und nicht in Frankreich XD

Ja stimmt die Architektur bleibt erhalten!

Dein Deutsche ist wunderbar.

Darf ich dich was fragen, aber bitte nicht böse sein^^

Gibt es irgendeine Chance, dass sich Niederländer und Flamen noch als deutsch betrachten?
Ich meine, ihr habt das Reich erst 1648 nach dem 30-jährigen Krieg verlassen, und es gibt von
Südtirol bis Amsterdam, eine Dialektfortsetzung des Deutschen. Oder hat die 350-jährige Trennung
eine zu große Kluft zwischen uns geschaffen?
Doppeladler Featured By Owner Edited Jan 30, 2015  New member
Fast alle Europäische Länder kriegen zu wenig Kinder, nicht nur Deutschland. In ganz Europa ist die Bevölkerungszuwachs stagniert, insbesondere Westeuropa. Aber Polen und Deutschland gehören jetzt zur EU, Territorium spielt natürlich überhaupt keine Rolle mehr heutzutage. Außerdem ist es unwahrscheinlich, dass die Bundesrepublik dieser Gebiete noch zurück haben wollt weil diese Regionen riesige Investitionen brauchen um ein gutes Wohlstandsniveau zu erreichen. Diese Geschichte ist leider vorbei aber das ist nichts neues. 

Das Alemannisch in die Elzass wird natürlich auch immer weniger gesprochen. Das ist unvermeidlich weil diese Sprache nicht dominant ist dort, im Gegensatz zu Süd-Tirol, wo die Deutschen ein Mehrheit sind. Zum Glück. 

Danke, es dauert immer eine Weile bevor ich richtig gut Deusch spreche oder schreibe. Ich bin wie ein Diesel wenn es das angeht, es bracht einfach Zeit. Und dann ist es noch immer nicht perfekt und gibt es noch immer Rechtschreibfehler aber es wird langsam aber sicher besser ; ). 

Kein Angst, das ist für mich überhaupt keine Beleidigung. Ich finde es eigentlich nur schlimm wenn jemand mir ein Holländer nennt statt Niederländer, die Holländer befinden sich im Westen von die Niederlande (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Den Haag usw).  Also gut das Sie das Unterschied richtig verstehen haben ; ). Es ist vergleichbar mit wenn ich jemand aus Bayern ein Preiss nenne zum Beispiel. Leider verstehen auch viele Niederländer das Unterschied zwischen Holland und die Niederlande nicht. 

Ich betrachte mich als Germanisch. Ich fühle mich relativ stark verbunden mit Deutschen (insbesondere weil ich 37,5% Deutsches Blut habe), Schweden, Dänen, Norweger, Flamen, Österreicher (letzte zwei sind etnisch natürlich Niederländische und Deutsche, 
ich bin übrigens kein Nazi). In meiner Region gibt es noch viele die Kleverländisch sprechen, ein Deutsch/Niederdeutsches Dialekt. Und auch in andere Niederländische Provinzen (insbesondere Limburg (haben auch zur Deutschen Bund gehört im 19. Jahrhundert), Overrijsel, Noord-Brabant und Groningen) gibt es Niederdeutsche Dialekten, ich komme übrigens aus Gelderland, in der nähe von Kleve. 

Ich glaube nicht das der Kluft zwischen uns zu groß geworden ist. Etnisch und im weniger maße kulturell sind Niederländer und Deutschen stark mit einander verbunden. Aber ein politische Einheit wie das Heiliges Römisches Reich wird es nicht mehr geben. Die einzige politische Einheit wo wir miteinander verbunden sind ist die EU und das ist meiner Meinung nach auch die Zukunft. In die Zukunft wird die EU ein Bundesstaat sein. Natürlich wird der EU heutzutage stark kritisiert aber Europäer haben mehr miteinander Gemein als die meisten denken, zumindestens die Nord/Westeuropäer (DE, NL, BE, LUX, AUS, SWE, FIN, Baltische Staaten, NOR und DEN). 
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Ja ich hoffe unsere dummen Politiker helfen unseren Frauen endlich mal wieder Kinder zu kriegen XD

Kein Problem, ich kann leider gar kein Niederländisch, aber wenn ich es lese, dann verstehe ich das meiste.

Hahaha, jaja ich weiß Holland ist nur eine Region von vielen, das wäre so als nennt ihr alle Deutschen Preußen oder Bayern genau^^

Das ist schön, ich sehe uns nämlich auch als germanische Brüder! Kennst du dieses Video?:…

Ich finde die Idee der EU sehr gut, aber momentan hat sie so viele Fehler, es muss dringend reformiert werden!
Doppeladler Featured By Owner Jan 31, 2015  New member
Schönes Video, nette Karten und hilfreich. 

Der EU hat natürlich ein Demokratiedefizit. Die Schuldekrise hilft auch nicht wirklich mit das Idee unter Europäer beliebter zu machen. 

Ich finde das der EU zu groß geworden ist. Die Beitritt von Länder wie Bulgarien und Rumänien brauchte der EU nach meiner Meinung nicht. Türkei soll absolut nicht beitreten dürfen, finde ich. 
HeliosMegistos Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2015
Whatever my views on German actions during the two World Wars I personally find it disgusting that so much territory was literally torn away from her. There was no justification for it during the First World War's end.

I've always viewed Austria as having it's own unique German identity however so I usually have it staying as the Danubian Federation or something in my alternate histories with the Hapsburgs in charge.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes the expulsion of Germans was the biggest in history as I read, and that in the civilized Europe...
But always the normal people are punished :/

Well Austria was for 500 years the german state, dominating and ruling all other states,
the german history us unthinkable without Austria. However in the time of nations
Austria cared more for its nongerman posessions in the east it lost later anyway,
than for the german unity, so Prussia took the chance and united most of the Germans.
Austria was supposed to unite with it later, and 1918/19 wished to do so:…

But the Allied who wanted to weaken the Germans as much as possible, didn´t allow that.
Bellumsaur Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
What's saddening about this was that, in the case of WW1, Germany wasn't really to blame for causing the War (that was all Serbia's doing). They merely just honored treaties regarding Austria-Hungary just as Russia and France had honored treaties regarding Serbia but Britain and France were contempt with removing such a potential rival for dominance in Europe without realizing about the consequences of their arrogance.

With Potsdam, it was mostly Stalin strong-fisting the Western Allies who were unwilling to seek a confrontation with the Soviet dictator. The surrender of much of Eastern Europe to Stalin's brand of Marxist ideology and the vast quantities of German refugees fleeing their homes in what would be ceded to Poland, Czechoslovakia, and "Kaliningrad Oblast" is pretty a much a testament to how Europe merely replaced one hegemonic tyranny with another after the war.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Absolutely true, I don´t say Germany is no bit to blame, but I blame mainly
Serbia, France and Russia (their diplomats and governments, not the normal people).

Germany did the treaty with Austria, to avoid the war, because Wilhelm thought, France and Russia know,
if they do shit, they trigger a continental war. But they didn´t care, they wanted the war.

Indeed Russia wanted to grow, so they pushed Germans and Poles westwards, it was also Russia that demanded
to abolish Prussia in 1947 officially. Prussia the heart and unificator (hope the right word^^) of our nation, the best
and strongest state. And they destroyed them, so we would be ununited again.
EIRivero Featured By Owner Dec 22, 2014
One of my teacher  told ous that the treaty was an abuse wich did no one a favor in the long run.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
The Versailles one? Indeed it caused directly the next war, because such arrogance and hate
can never lead to peace ofc.
EIRivero Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2014
pretty much, in fact, I never understod why take the Posen and Dazing. In Posen case, it will have been enought with the polish just getting free pass to te sea no to give them historical and ethnical territory of the germans.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 25, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I don´t say that Germany didn´t do any mistakes, but 1918 was the chance for Europe to end all wars...
what did they do instead...seed for the next one great XD The main problem that the USA joined this war.
Only that caused, that Germany and France/ Britain could not make a peace on eye level. A huge mistake,
an egoistic mistake so the USA can rise on the cost of Europe.
EIRivero Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2014
Well, in certain way it was inevitable that the United States will join the war... for a political point of view. I mean, before the great war the United States was satisfied whit only working in the continent, being the main surce of power on it, so it made sence that eventualy they decided that they needed the aproval of Europe to enter in the game of world politics i what better oportunity that enter the war in the very last estages when nobody could have put objection to this. To be honest, the war pretty much detroyed some things that maybe will be worth to try today.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sure from their view it was the best chance, from the other side,
it was an egoistic move to damage others for the own profit.
EIRivero Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2014
Yes, is was an egoistical move, but is part of the filosophy of power that they follow. One of my techers, José Luis Orozco had writed abaut it in his book "Filosofía Norteamericana del poder". As a mexican I see examples of this pragmatic set of values that they follow... not that other places are whitout them. On top of that, remember that the EUA es is a very young nation that still wants the aproval (in certain forms) of the older nations.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sure I understand the move, but it was a big damage for us and Europe.
America also orders our medias to make Russians the new modern devil now,
but most people don´t trust the medias anymore.
(1 Reply)
PAPhilly Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2014
So, here's a question: who would win in an all out, scorched earth, winner kills everyone on the loser's side fight: WWII era Germany or the Federal Republic of Germany we all know and love today? Also, JUST those two; no other countries involved. And just for fun, let's say it's Nazi Germany at the height of its extent in WWII (so from France to the Soviet Union, with ALL those resources) I think WWII Germany would advance pretty far just with numerical advantages, but FRG would win in the end with their superior technology. Thoughts?
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
The modern Germany would never win XD The Wehrmacht would just outnumber the mini Bundeswehr.
They could not be everywhere. Also the moral and motivation of the Wehrmacht was one of the best in history
they would fight to the bitter end, while the Bundeswehr is more like: ach it´s just a job XD

We do not even have nuclear weapons, just some great jet fighter and tanks, but the old Germany would win^^
PAPhilly Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2014
I don't know; I heard the Leopard II is a REALLY good tank (it is half M1 Abrams after all, and THOSE can be outnumbered twenty to one and still beat back their attackers) Plus, wouldn't the morale of the Bundeswehr go up a bit more when they're defending their homeland instead of fighting in some far off Middle Eastern nation?
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
But Germans vs Germans? XD I think the Bundeswehr, where many admire
the old soldiers, would not want to fight them maybe.
PAPhilly Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2014
True, but let's just assume that they did want to fight.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 19, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Hm Then maybe they could win, even tho I guess the BRD is much more dependant on
import and export, than the 3. Reich was.
PAPhilly Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2014
True; plus the Nazis have that whole empire, while modern Germany is just Germany. The Nazis would probably be able to just scorch FRG's agriculture; starve them into submission. So FRG's only real hope is to hit them HARD early in the war before the Nazis can get on their territory.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
U wanna make a pic of that?
(1 Reply)
Rheinbund Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2014  New member
Just to clarify, in French we say Alsace-Moselle and not Alsace-lorraine because Prussian taken only Moselle department during Franco-Prussian war.

After you say 90% of the residents are Germans, but it's in partly false, let's me explain, this is not to relaunch the controversy, yes they're speaking and become (again) german after Prussian win, but for French people, nation is not a language, so even this people speaking German language they are french and Alsace is really an important territory in their history, the first time where Marseillaise is singing is in Alsace, Mulhouse join French republic with a referendum, marechal Kellermann, ... 

So yes they are german (language, culture, ...)  in this time but also French (history, culture, ...) and during first world war, and for them they just think recover a French territory. 

And don't forget Germany was create at Versaille (old French capital, after Prussia humiliate them and asking lot of money ) I'm not saying that they had reason to do that, but for them it was just a revenge of the Franco-Prussian War.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I know, what you call Moselle is for us Ostlothringen (East Lorraine).

Nope, they were not only ethnically german by language, but also genetically.
And in Strassburg the first newspaper of the world was printed, by Germans in the german language,
it was for many centuries even under french occupation an important german university city,
and if u look around in Elsass, I see german architecture, german christmas markets, german folk songs...
But the radical french language politics brainwashed them to believe they´re not Germans anymore,
and the german language is nearly killed :( . Not meant offending, just a fact, even when it´s very directly.

But my friend, 1870/71 was a mistake the French did, they declared the war and ran into Bismarcks trap.
That´s something I never understood, instead of saying, yep was a mistake, now let´s be friends,
France started an attitude of hate and revenge...but for what? That Germany didn´t allow France invades it
again and again and for the first time strikes back?
If you know your old foreign minister Poincarre you know that he was one of the main reasons for the 1. world war.

I respect France and admire it´s great history, but sometimes I think the French forget, that they invaded
Germany dozens of times, inventing nonsense like the Rhein must be a border, no matter what people and culture
is there, and Germany was mostly defensive in history.

But look how clear the ethnical borders were in the west always:…

Again I have nothing against France, I think Napoleon was cool, but I also demand truth.
Rheinbund Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2014  New member
I'm totally agree with you the Franco-Prussian war is a French fault. But lot of French historians think that's Parliament which launched this war after the defeat he's blamed Napoleon III, and it used the feeling of revenge to destroy second empire and proclaimed third republic, but they were overwhelmed by the feeling they create and people pushed them to a new war. "if you play with fire, you get burned " :D. If Poincarre  doesn't want the war i'm pretty sur, people never voted for him.

I never say "Elsass is not a german territory", yes she's german, but i say she's also french.

about the massacre of the German language, it's also necessary put things in context, before the war, Alsace was really a decentralized region and having many great privilege, that's why the majority of people speak German while they were French, during several centuries.  

Massacre of the German language begins only after the First World to avoid a new invasion of Germany based on Pan-Germanism (it's a very bad think, because for me French is not a nation of language, but only of culture and Friendship between French regions).

For me Germans are brothers of Frenchs, and I think if Bismarck would have done the same thing he make with Austria before and not asking any territorial concessions, just abandoning the empire and proclamation republic, he would have put France to his boot and Germany win the first world war.
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Oh as I read Napoleon III didn´t want a war directly, but we always forget, even in a monarchy the king is not the only
one with power. Many ministers, generals etc. forced him to start the war. But still it was a mistake.

I always thought it would´ve been a nice idea to make Elsass a puffer state like Belgium, with bilingual raised people.

A french friend told me the difference between Germany and France, Germans and French.
For France the nation is just the regions you own. For Germans, there must be also ethnic-genetical ties,
which mostly connects with the language area, but not always. Like today, the people in Elsass are still
ethnic Germans, but national French.

I understand why France is doing this language politics, but that doesn´t mean it´s nice or good^^

For me, modern France and Germany are the best partners, the heart of Europe and the best nations
here at the moment, ruling together. If our modern friendship is strong and can forgive the old rivalry,
we will have a great time in the future.

I have a long text where Bismarck explains why he took also Metz, and not just the german Elsass and East-Lorraine.
Maybe I can translate and upload it. But u surely know already, Metz was taken not because Germany had a right to do so,
but to have a better situation in a new war. As far as I know they never tried to force the French there to learn German,
and they built many great buildings in that 50 years.

Bonne nuit mon ami ;)
Rheinbund Featured By Owner Edited Dec 16, 2014  New member
Merci et bonjour :D

Yes i read about it, France has make a big stronghold in Metz, so he took it in order to avoid that France used it in the next war Bismlarck was persuade French want their revanche. This is also why the France has been so hard with Germany at Versaille, she was convinced Prussain was going to want revenge, it was necessary to weaken as much as possible to avoid it.

Make a new state a puffer state, you want the death of France ? :D. If we took map of nationalist language (France is very, very little) by exemple, Rousillon is Castillan,  corse is Italien, Brittany, Savoie is independant, French overseas department isn't French, North territories are Flamish, ....

And i'm pretty sur, French become forbidden in Moselle, and was fought because he was language of enemy(but after it, Prussian become relaxed for that because there were too many French speaker in Moselle)abd the problem (for German reich) is that most of Germanic settlers arrived because they were Francophiles and loved French culture, paradoxically it is they who have permitted the French to survive or progress in this zone.

Yes, in begining, Prussians really try to treat well Alsace-Lorraine they consider them like friends brothers.

but after it's spoiled, there was a lot of trouble and some Alsatian decided to join the French camp during the first world war (18000 i think) and during this war Prussian soldiers have really brutalized the population ( Savern affair(just before), "Wer zaudert noch?", ...) as the saying Alexander Hohenlohe.
Warsie Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Also I'd be fucking pissed about my land stolen from me by the fucking Allies. At leaat you should unify Austria and mainlan Germany together :(
Arminius1871 Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
We can´t we´re too unpatriotic, the western peoples are weak today,
they have no pride or self-confidence, more like vasalls of America by own will.
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