constructive critik is always welcome, hate-comments not.
This is a map showing the territories that Germany, and german-speaking territories that Austria lost,
between 1919 and today. For every region you see the name and the date, when it was taken from Germany,
some regions were taken twice after every world war. A short description about the regions:
Federal Republic of Germany: Germany today
Austria: Anschluss forbidden in 1919, the Republic German-Austria containing all ethnical Germans
from Austria-Hungary was forbidden as well. It united with Germany in 1938 and left Germany again
after the downfall of the 3. Reich.
Northern Schleswig: Lost after a referendum in 1919, because most of the residents were danish,
Southern Schleswig was allowed to stay in Germany.
Eupen-Malmedy: Small german communities lost in 1919 and again in 1945.
Alsace-Lorraine (Elsass-Lothringen): Lost in 1919 and again in 1945, around 90% of the residents
are Germans, Metz and the region around was always french.
South Tyrol (Südtirol): Lost 1919 and never reunited with the rest of Tyrol. Even tho Italy tried
to erase everything German there, still 70% of the residents are Germans today.
Kanaltal, South Styria (Südsteiermark), Ödenburg etc.: Smaller german regions around Austria
claimed for German-Austria, but not allowed by the allied. Most of the Germans there were
expelled, left because of bad conditions or were assimilated.
Sudetenland: Claimed by German-Austria, but forbidden by the allied. United with Germany in 1938,
lost after 1945. 99% of the Germans killed or expelled.
West Prussia (Westpreußen), Posen, Danzig: Lost in 1919 and again in 1945. Posen was mainly settled
by Poles, West-Prussia was mixed and created the so called corridor, one of many reasons that leaded
to a war with Poland.
East-Prussia (Ostpreußen): Separated from the german mainland in 1919, lost in 1945, all Germans were killed or expelled.
Pommerania (Pommern), East Brandenburg and Silesia (Schlesien): Lost in 1945, nearly all Germans were killed or expelled.
Upper-Silesia (Oberschlesien): Lost 1922 and again 1945, nearly all Germans killed or expelled.
Not included: Language islands, that were spread all over East Europe, states that identified in former centuries as Germans, such as Luxemburg, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, the Netherlands, parts of Belgium.
I didn´t mention the Saarland and partition of Germany into 4 zones in that map, too.
For more information, check:
Treaty of Versailles:
Expulsion of the Germans:
connect both, polish and german culture that existed
Therefore, it is wrong to say that Germany lost Southern Jutland by the referendum in 1920, when there have been Danish dominated for more than 400 years and only under Prussian supremacy in 56 years.
there is nothing to get back.
But only because Danes ruled over Germans a long time,
doesn´t mean these Germans had no right to join the unification
of their real fatherland.
Polen, die können wenig dafür. Leider können wir die Gebiete auch kaum zurückfordern,
wir hätten nicht mal genug Menschen, die dort hinziehen könnten und die jetzigen Polen
zu vertreiben würde wahrsch. sofort Krieg bedeuten.
Aber zumindest möchte ich, dass man auch darüber lernt, und sie Respekt erhalten.
In Ungarn sind sie damit am weitesten, sie haben viele Denkmäler gebaut, sich entschuldigt
und heißen alle Deutschen wieder willkommen. Wirklich wundervolle Menschen.
In Polen ist es so 50/ 50 und den größten Hass hab ich von Tschechen erfahren,
den die hatten ja im Vergleich zu anderen kaum Verbrechen erlitten im Krieg
und haben aus purem Hass die Sudetendeutschen vertrieben, von wo auch ich Vorfahren habe.
Nach dem 1. Weltkrieg stand es nicht gut um uns und die Weimarer Republik hat alles nur noch schlimmer gemacht, aber das 3. Reich hat dann letztendlich unsere Exekution unterschrieben. Im Jahre 1933 ist meiner Meinung nach das Deutsche Reich, auf das ich stolz bin untergegangen. Am Besten wäre es gewesen, hätten wir uns nie in den Konflikt Österreichs eingemischt und somit zumindest versucht, den 1. Weltkrieg aufzuhalten. Dann wären wir das stolze Deutsche Kaiserreich geblieben, das wir vor bis fast 100 Jahre (bis 1918) waren.
Die Weimarer Republik hat versucht, das, was unter dem Joch des Versailler Vertrag noch zu retten war, noch zu retten, hat im Endeffekt aber leider auch nur die NSDAP an die Macht gebracht. Hätte sich die Weimarer Republik damals etwas gegen die militärischen Auflagen versucht zu wehren, hätte vielleicht die Reichswehr die NSDAP nicht so unterstützt (Vor Allem Hindenburg, der als ehemaliger Militär der OHL natürlich Hitler mit offenen Armen empfing).
Mini-Ostpreußen leben, wollen die preußische Kultur dort wieder
aufleben lassen, die Altstadt wieder aufbauen, die Stadt umbenennen...
Aber es wird dann wohl eher ein 4. baltischer Staat, als dass es zu uns
Theoretisch könnte man Preußen aber in Brandenburg+Berlin wieder
errichten, was ja eh die Kernprovinz Preußens war.
Also ich hab mal den bestseller von Herr Clark "Die Schlafwandler" gelesen,
zum 1. Weltkrieg. Seiner Meinung nach, hätten wir den 1. Weltkrieg kaum
Denn 1. Wollte Frankreich seit 1871 Rache, Elsass-Lothringen und hat dementsprechend
über Jahrzehnte alle Großmächte gegen Deutschland aufgehetzt.
2. Russland wollte die Meerengen bei Konstantinopel, denen ging es auch nicht um
die Rettung der Slawen, Serbien war nur Mittel zum Zweck, Bulgarien z.B. haben
sie sich sogar zum Feind gemacht.
3. England ist einfach auf die Seite gegangen, von der sie sich am meisten erhofft haben.
Man hat also eh schon daran gearbeitet das dominierende Deutschland zu zerschlagen.
Der Blankoscheck an Österreich sollte den Krieg ja verhindern, sie dachten die anderen
Mächte wollen keinen Großkrieg wegen so einem unwichtigen Land wie Serbien riskieren.
Dabei haben sie schon lange einen großen Krieg gewollt und geplant, sie brauchten nur
einen guten Grund.
Und das Versailler Diktat war ja die direkte Saat für den nächsten Krieg.
Du scheinst sehr geschichtlich interessiert zu sein, hättest du Lust in Skype oder einem
neuen Forum mitzureden? Wenn ja, schreib mir eine PN
Imagine how much more powerful the GDR (or PDR if renamed) would have been and helped the Eastern Bloc, but no. Stalin had to be an ass.
Although interestingly, Stalin's foreign policy was based on Imperial Russian convictions and reclaiming its territories rather than spreading communism in Europe. Ironic because that pleb was Georgian.
And the west fucked over Germany as well yeah. Interestingly, the British and French colonial atrocities that spanned hundreds of years surpass whatever the Germans did and their fuckery can still be felt today in their former colonies.
and what is the first thing he does after victory? Imperialism!
Yeah the GDR could be rather strong, it was anyway one of the best in
And East Germany was best Warsaw Pact nation. (Best Germany was Kaiserreich hands down followed by Prussia under Frederik the great).
Also, do people really forget that the French and British were even worse when they managed their empires? Centuries of violence that people forget.
However I have no problem when Italy gets extra Trentino and Triest from Austria.
Austria-Hungary was in my opinion a very great state construction and on the best way to
become a mini EU, too, and Germany lost way too many regions after ww 1. of which many
were even in majority german.
I don´t care for Austria-Hungary actually, they should´ve merged with us
The german part. Lol ofc, everything is better than now, but 1871 borders is
even much better XD
U r only greedy for Tirol, remove Lore! XD But hey Trentino is fully yours in my opinion,
ALTO ADIGE IST ITALIEN!!!! XD
if you know what I mean
But I love Italy, you are such nice people, the family at the Lago di Garda we always visited was
so awesome...as kid I said I marry their daughter later hahaha XD
I love to read the comments in here. It is nice to see that many not-German understand what we (our grandparents) were going through.
Personally I don’t see a way to get the land back, that we lost and since the current structure settled for 70years it could only hurt the people that are currently life there. As much as I would like to move the borders around to get back (parts of) the old Prussian land, I am educated enough to know that the polish people suffered as much as we did (maybe more) and they deserve to stay where they life right now.
A way to become more powerful (if we want that) is to expand our footprint in the EU. Germany is the most powerful economy in the EU and that is what is counting in the 21th Century.
When the crises around Greece told me something, than that all EU is already looking at Germany and follow our lead. I kind of like that, even when it means, that we have to pay the biggest part of the cake.
No at the moment we can´t get any of those, the only realistic scenario I could imagine is
that in the future Austria, Südtirol and Eupen-Malmedy join us, but else...no. Even more because
we have a big demographic problem, we get no children.
If Germany accepts it´s role as a leader it can work, but Germany is still very zaghaft
and scared to be called a Nazi land again, even tho they do it anyway if they flame us XD
And this should be Germany, if you go after political and historical region borders:
Posen was mostly polish and Poland deserves it, that´s right I agree.
With Alsace-Lorraine u r wrong, cause 88% of them were always Germans,
only the region around Metz is historically french, which is only a small part of it.
Northern Schleswig shall be danish, I´m fine.
Sudetenland is rightful german, but we can´t get all that regions anyway.
Germany is in a big leading position true, but not very patriotic, Merkel won´t do much
for german interests, and our president travels every month to another state kneeing down
for german crimes decades ago, showing how weak and soft Germany became, while noone
else would do that for their own crimes.
For example I could celebrate America as liberator maybe...but Russia??? Not less worse than
Nazi Germany deserves surely no respect, only because it won.
Around 1 hour 13 mins, you can see a short compilation of that time:
Here is the full episode of Stresemann, but sadly only in German, maybe the pictures you
see are enough to understand:
The first world war was not our fault and I´m kinda sure that all empires and nations
that took part in the war blindly followed, so what?
The second world war is a direct seed of the Versailles dictate, do you even know how
harsh this dictate was, and that the people voted Hitler not because he hated jews,
but because he reversed this dictate? Until 1939, he got back nearly all german settled
regions with no single fight, the economy was blooming, the people had work,
so it´s obvious they followed him.
What he then did was just criminal and I hate him for that, but it´s actually very easy to
understand why they followed him, when you know what the allied did to Germany,
and how awful the crisis in the Weimarer Republic were.
was that the goal of the allied? Are you even aware what you talk here???
Or is it true, that this was not a fight against nazism, but against the german people?
Noone wants that regions back it´s unrealistic, but we want respect and I have ancestors
from the Sudetenland, too, so you shouldn´t speak so respectless about that poor people.
At the end always the normal people suffer, no reason to treat on their feelings.
Furthermore I get the feeling that many Germans are afraid of their own success because the shame they endured. Germany should abandon the EU and create their own Empire. See how well the rest of Europe would do without Germany supporting the continent economically.
After ww 1. they tried to destroy us by material, this didn´t work. But after ww 2.
it was reeducation, teaching all Germans to lose any pride or patriotism, to accept the allied
as liberators that did everything right and that´s why we are economically strong
but our spirit is weak, we´re very ungerman today. We Germans were made to produce
but not to rule from 1945 on. That´s the thing that is going wrong atm.
However I don´t want revenge or hate the normal people of these victor nations.
Oh my. Some of you, germans, are sometimes so pathetic, it's even funny.
You said Prussia was heart of Germany.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia… - Well, prussians were the most devout followers of Hitler. Prussia needed to be destroyed to guarantee germans will remain quiet.
Germany commited crimes and it was punished. And stop whining that Germany was hurt. It wasn't saint itself.
And I think wether a polish farmer wife, nor a german farmer wife in that regions were guilty for their government,
so both were victims.
Or are german victims less worth to you than others?
I think no German would deny german crimes, we worked a lot with our past.
Prussia united our nation and Bismarck was our greatest leader ever. That´s the time I´m proud of.
But don´t forget, Hitler didn´t let come back Wilhelm II, he had no interest in Prussia or the old monarchy,
it were only people he needed to manipulate.
"Germany commited crimes and it was punished. And stop whining that Germany was hurt. It wasn't saint itself."
But you know that the rise of Hitler has a pre-story and you know it didn´t happen without reason?
We have a saying: Hitler was born in Versailles.
And don´t tell me Poles didn´t dream about a gigantic Poland, up to the regions of Berlin, too,
some of your generals even wanted to invade Germany in the early 30s, because we had no army
So you can continue making fun of murdered people, no matter which nationality, or change ur mind.
I respect Poland and I´m sorry for the damage the Nazis did, if you wanna continue to hate...I can´t change it.
I know about pre-story of Hitler and treaty od Versailles. But, guys who tell Versailles was bad, forget about 1871, when Prussians provoked France into war, humiliated them completely, took Alsace-Lorraine and forced them to pay giant contributions. What's ironic, they mutiliated them in same Versailes they were mutilated themselves forty years later. But it is nothing strange the French wanted revenge. The situation was even worse when Wilhelm II started to threathen everyone.
The lands taken in the Versailles weren't really german lands. I agree that population of Alsace was mostly german, but a lot of french lived in Lorraine. Northern Schleswig was danish, and Poznan and corridor was mostly polish. I agree, that there were germans who lived there, but german minority wasn't that big, and it was treated much better than poles in Germany in XIX century. Upper Silesia is debatable, but there were three uprising against Germany here. But I have to admit, that South Tirol was and is inhabited by germans.
About the other things in Versailles, I agree that punishment on Germany after WWI was a bit too much.
About Poland controlling Berlin, that is the first time I ever hear of this. It's shame that Polabian Slavs dissapeared, but I don't blame Germany for this. Only thing I would wish, is something to protect Lusatian Serb culture from extinction.
And about invasion in the thirty years, there were plans like this, but they were plans of preventive war to overthrow Hitler. They didn't do it, and six years later, when germans had monstrous war machine it was too late to stop them.
And, to clarify, I don't hate Germany. I like german history, but there is one thing. Poznan and corridor are polish.
I heard that one time there was more Slovaks dancing Lusatian Serb dances then the real Lusatian Serb.
you know what expulsion is, the Russians did the same to you. I´m sure Poles understand
very well how it feels to lose the home.
And you also know the pre history of 1871? That France attacked the german states since 200-300 years?
There were about 12-15 aggressions, the Rheinland was burnt down several times, palaces and castles
in Baden destroyes, Napoleon even wanted to erase the whole german identity in large parts.
France reacted more childish actually, it was normal for it since centuries to bully others and always win,
and suddenly Prussia our hero stopped them and said fuck off, Germany won´t allow anymore that you
bully it. XD
Instead of then working for a peace, France moved on the way of hate and revenge, one (of very many!) reason for the
1. world war.
Well I would´ve given Poland all polish settled regions, like Poznan, which was an important region of your culture.
The rest was extremely mixed and there were many language islands. Maybe an exchange would´ve helped?
Yes the westslavic tribes disappeared, as our east germanic tribes disappeared, but it was as u say, not the fault
of Germany or Poland, it was a natural, non-political migration.
I think we agree more than u think^^ However, we surely can respect each other now, I mean eternal hate?
Nah please not^^
15 million civilians had to leave their homes, 2-3 million were killed on their way to the west.
Most of them were women, children and elder men, since the other men fought, were fallen
or in siberia already :/
That´s also the reason why they abolished Prussia (German: Preußen) in 1947,
it was our strongest and best german state, the state that united our nation in 1871,
and they wanted to kill our heart state, so they can controll us easier.